 Slate Black |
 Detail of the fin blades on the rand |
This is our latest rand-style skirt, and replaces the ToughSkin Rand. This updated skirt features a new “fin” style rand designed to create an effective water barrier on even the most challenging rims, an improved high-viz grab handle, and a general overhaul of the skirt fit-range to encompass the new generation of wider cockpit rims, particularly Jackson kayaks. Like all rand-style skirts, this model tends to be harder to get on a rim than a bungee skirt, but is an excellent choice for kayakers most concerned with skirt implosion, and/or who are very hard on skirts.
We have also made an 8 minute video to help with rand skirt fit- this can be tricky, and the video goes into some detail about why rand skirts can be so tough to fit properly and offers a lot of specific fit info. The video can be see below. However, here is the condensed, “executive summary”:
1) measure the circumference of your rim- length and width measurements alone will not guarantee a good fit with a rand skirt.
2) Large cockpit: 85″ circumference. XL cockpit: 90″ circumference. XXL 98″ circumference.
NOTE: The comments below are carried over from the ToughSkin Rand skirt- there was a lot of helpful information in there, so we decided to keep them posted. Just be aware that some comments may not apply to this new skirt.
57 responses so far ↓
1 Dave // Aug 25, 2008 at 4:41 pm
I’ve been looking for a blue neo skirt to match my Impex sea kayak (white w. blue tape). However, this Tuffskin Rand is not recommended for sea kayakers!
Do you make any bungee neo skirts in blue?
2 John Weld // Aug 26, 2008 at 8:25 am
Hi Dave,
We might have something that will work… I will have one of customer service people get in touch with you.
3 kev // Oct 13, 2008 at 9:12 pm
hey john, just want to confirm deck size for jackson superstar xl right?
4 John // Oct 14, 2008 at 8:49 am
Yep- it’s an XL.
-J
5 algol // Nov 19, 2008 at 7:56 am
Hi! What size for Riot Turbo? Medium?
6 John Weld // Nov 21, 2008 at 12:54 pm
Right- medium.
7 Kelly // Dec 14, 2008 at 2:42 pm
And the size for a mamba 8.5 is probably an XL also, right?
8 John Weld // Dec 15, 2008 at 10:13 pm
The mamba is a 34″ X 19″ cockpit, so a large skirt should fit it fine.
9 Jon Harmon // Jan 12, 2009 at 9:30 am
Does the Large cockpit fit my Liquidlogic Jefe Grande?
10 John Weld // Jan 12, 2009 at 9:31 am
Yes, the large cockpit fits the Jefe Grande.
Thanks-
J
11 Richard // Mar 14, 2009 at 9:25 am
What size whitewater/neoprene skirt fits a wilderness systems Pamlico 100?
12 John Weld // Mar 16, 2009 at 10:45 am
Hey Richard,
I see that I answered a similar questions you posted on the SBD skirt page, but for the benefit of the readers of this page, I will paste my earlier response below:
If the wilderness systems website is correct, that rim is 47.5″ by 22″, which would make it what we could call a “rec” cockpit. This means that basically the most-if not all- skirts made for this kind of boat are going to be loose fitting, splash-guard type, nylon skirts like our Tortuga rec skirt. There *might* be a neoprene skirt made out there big enough for that rim, but I don’t know if any off hand. The problem is two-fold: 1) most people who buy that boat don’t need the performance of a neoprene skirt, and 2) the very size of the rim- particularly the long, straight edges along the side, aren’t really going to hold a skirt that well anyway. So even an expensive neoprene skirt would be very likely to leak, and to come off very easily.
I hope this helps, and let me know if you have any other questions,
-John
13 Jim // Apr 8, 2009 at 9:20 pm
I am looking for a WW spray skirt. I need a XXL deck XL or XXL waist. Liquid Logic XP10
Do you sell one?
14 John Weld // Apr 9, 2009 at 9:02 am
Hey Jim,
We are making them right now- they will be ready at the end of this month. It will actually be a shockwave skirt, but they are made specifically for that boat. We are also making a Toughskin rand version of this skirt, but it will not be here until the end of summer.
Let me know if I can answer any questions, or if you’d like to get on the list to get one of these.
-John
15 mark // Apr 15, 2009 at 10:27 pm
What size skirt will fit my Prijon Creeker 225?
Thanks, Mark
16 John Weld // Apr 16, 2009 at 9:02 am
Hey Mark,
I looked on the Prijon/ wildwasser website, and I couldn’t find the cockpit dimensions on that boat..can you measure the width and length including the rim?
-J
17 scott sady // May 11, 2009 at 8:46 pm
I got a large deck toughskin rand skirt to use with my Jackson Allstar. The size chart said that was the fit, but it takes two people to get it on, and that was after I let it sit ON the boat for 3 days and got it wet. Am I just totally weak or what’s the deal?
18 John Weld // May 12, 2009 at 9:27 am
Hey Scott,
Yeah- this is what we call a “known issue”. The Jackson Allstar is a difficult rim to fit because while it is the same length as most large cockpit rims, it is much, much wider. Given that neoprene stretches better in one direction than the other, and we cut the neoprene to stretch the length of the rim rather than the width, the Allstar suddenly becomes a big problem. But, the Allstar is a very popular boat, and because of that, we have had to redesign our large cockpit skirts to fit it. Anyway- long story short- I can replace that skirt with one that will fit much better if you send that skirt back to us. You will need to get an RA number to write on the box before you send it- and you can get one here, or call us to get one.
Sorry for the inconvenience,
-John
19 Kevin Younger // May 16, 2009 at 7:47 pm
John-
More sizing questions for you (I know you love them). I’m currently in a SuperFun, SuperStar & MegaRocker (big guy). I’m using a SnapDragon basic bungee-style rand that fit’s all three but it’s wearing out.
I’m deciding between the Special K and the Toughskin. (I’m hard on gear so the K might be best.) The only skirt that my local shop had in the XXL tunnel with an XL deck was a Shockwave. So i threw that on and hopped in a SuperFun in the shop. Even with some help we couldn’t get that skirt onto the SuperFun. So I assume it would need a XXL deck? But from what I understand the rubber rands are even harder to get on? Will this be a real pain to use the Special K on a daily basis?
Two other questions:
Do you make the Toughskin and/or the Spec K with an implosion bar?
And do either of those models incorporate your sticky urethane/silicone on the inside like the Shockwave? It seems like running this on all skirts around the back and maybe a 1/4 to 1/3 down the sides of the rim would keep it from just sliding right off and make putting them on much easier.
Thanks for the help. Keep up the great work.
-Kevin
20 John Weld // May 18, 2009 at 7:58 am
Hey Kevin,
These is an easy one. All of those big Jackson boats require an XXL deck skirt, and we just stared making them this spring in both the Shockwave and the rand-style skirts (special k and toughskin). When we added this new size, we went ahead and re-tooled the rand skirt patterns to make them easier to put on across the board. So- I think a xx rand skirt would be just perfect for you. In terms of availability: The Shockwave is our most popular skirt, so we made the changes on that model first, and subsequently we went into production first with those. We should have xxl shockwaves on the shelf in few weeks. The rand style skirts are just now starting to gear up for full production, and in the meantime we are making them on a made-to-order basis at IR.
As far as your construction questions regarding the rand skirt:
1) Rand skirts don’t need an implosion bar- implosion bars are really meant to fix a shortcoming of bungee skirts. Thats assuming you could even attach an implosion bar to a rand skirt- without getting into too much detail, it would be a very difficult thing to do, if possible at all.
2) See above answer- the urethane patch on the underside of a bungee skirt is meant to overcome a shortcoming inherent in bungees. The rand itself is like one long sticky urethane patch.
Let me know if you have any other questions (I really do like them!), and if you are interested in one of those made to order xxl rand skirts, let me know,
-John
21 Kevin Younger // May 18, 2009 at 12:22 pm
Thanks for the info John. One quick follow up: Does the rubber rand get stickier when it’s wet? I tried to just pull one on that superfun in the shop and it seemed kind of slick. I wasn’t in it because the tunnel size wasn’t right so that obviously makes it harder.
Thanks again,
-Kevin
22 John Weld // May 19, 2009 at 11:24 am
Hey Kevin,
I don’t know that there is any other way to improve the performance of the rand. It’s not perfect, but we (and all skirt makers) are dealing with a ridiculous number of variables when designing a skirt, including rim size, profile, rim shape, etc. The issue that you would have with those big Jackson rims is that they have a long, straight sides. There’s no way around it- if you want to fit a 38″ cockpit on a boat, it’s going to have to be elongated- but keep in mind that that the ideal rim shape is a perfect circle, with tension equally applied all the way around the rim. Long, straight edges are the worst possible rim shape, but as I noted, there is no way around it with bigger rims. Having said that, I think the rand skirt does a remarkable job of clinging to cockpit rims. In terms of “stickyness”- that is a tricky phenomena. What’s sticky when dry is rarely sticky when wet. The rand, to make a very, very long story short (we talk about “stickyness” here a lot), is the best you are going to get in that department.
-John
23 Lauagharne // Jun 4, 2009 at 7:58 pm
Hi there,
What size Tuffskin deck will snuggly fit my Riot Sniper? Cockpit specs. 35″ x 17″
Cheers,
Laugharne
24 John Weld // Jun 5, 2009 at 9:59 am
Jeez. 35 by 17. Thats like being 7 feet tall and weighing 100 lbs. well, I’d say a large would be a good place to start. It’s going to be a stretch over the front of the rim, but it will be reasonably tight across the deck.
-J
25 lc // Jun 11, 2009 at 10:30 am
I have a riot astro and need a new skirt. The size chart says I need a medium but when I go to add buy a skirt all you have in the drop-down box are lg/xl (for the special K and tuffskin). Are mediums on the way or are they gone forever?
26 John Weld // Jun 11, 2009 at 10:34 am
We no longer make a medium cockpit Rand skirt- Riot is/was the only company left making whitewater boats with a medium cockpit, and subsequently we don’t sell enough to keep the product alive. I may have some left-over medium cockpit rand skirts around- or you may want to pick up that medium/large rand skirt on the closeouts page you were looking at- thats the best deal we have going.
-J
27 coots // Jun 29, 2009 at 10:09 am
what size would i need for a liquid logic vision 56 and does anyone ever have problems with this skirt ever blowing out?
28 John Weld // Jun 29, 2009 at 10:20 am
Thats a large cockpit, Coots. In terms of blowing out, well, rand skirts tend to hold the rim better than bungees, and we design our rand skirts for higher-end paddlers (meaning they are a bit tighter and more implosion-proof). But has anyone ever had problems with them blowing off, well thats a tall order to fill. We can only make skirts so tight before your boat becomes a plastic coffin, and many times skirt blow-outs are as much a problem with the rim design as it is with the skirt.
Anyway to answer your question- I think that skirt is as good as it’s gonna get for blow-outs.
29 THEO vZ // Jul 12, 2009 at 11:49 pm
I HAVE A ROBSON RED FRED, I KNOW AN OLD ONE, BUT IM LOOKING TO GET A DRY DECK, WHAT SIZE SHOULD I BE LOOKING AT FOR A KEYHOLE COCKPIT
THANKS FOR YOUR TIME
30 John Weld // Jul 13, 2009 at 10:22 am
Red Fred. Wow. Cool. That would be considered a “large” cockpit, although to be 100% sure, before you order the drydeck, give us a call or write us with the exact dimensions of the cockpit (length, width, including rim), and let us know what skirt you ultimately want. When we make dry decks, I want them to fit exactly right.
Thanks,
-John
31 Brian // Aug 4, 2009 at 8:40 pm
Hey there,
Looking for a Toughskin Rand skirt for my Pyranha Everest. Its cockpit is a touch longer than the L Burn (3/4″ longer dimensions 37.5×19.5). Will the XL deck do the trick?
32 John Weld // Aug 5, 2009 at 9:44 am
Hey Brian,
We have actually replaced the Toughskin Rand with the “Lucky Charm” skirt for 2010, and we are just starting to roll those out. Along with a new rand design, we have completely overhauled the fit of those skirts, and the XL cockpit is pretty much custom-made for those long, narrow pyranha rims like the everest. They are just starting to get out to a handful of retailers, and I have 2 left here in stock- but they are going quick. If you are interested in tracking one down, give me a call at 814-395-9191.
-John
33 Bob // Aug 5, 2009 at 9:49 am
Hello,
What size skirt would be the best for my Fluid Solo L Expedition? I appreciate any info!
Thanks, Bob
34 John Weld // Aug 5, 2009 at 9:52 am
Easy- large cockpit.
-J
35 bethany // Aug 24, 2009 at 3:48 pm
Hey there,
I’m really interested in the Tuffskin Rand skirt and think it’s exactly what I’m looking for, but…..
do you ever make them with a shorter torso length for women?
I paddle a Perception Java and a Necky Chronic. I am assuming I would need a LG cockpit?
Thanks!
bethany
36 John Weld // Aug 24, 2009 at 3:52 pm
We can do that no problem- but you should order the skirt directly from us. Our online orders go directly to our retailers, and they wouldn’t be able to do that customization. Also- we are about to discontinue the Toughskin and replace it with the Lucky Charm skirt- they are greatly improved, and will be here in about a week. Well worth the wait if you have the time. And yes, those are large cockpits. If you would like to get an order in, or would like to talk more about the skirt and options, give us a call at 814-395-9191.
-John
37 bethany // Aug 24, 2009 at 3:59 pm
I’m not in a big rush. I’ll hold out for the Lucky Charm.
Thanks; I appreciate the fast response!
bethany
38 Glenn // Sep 25, 2009 at 11:30 pm
What size deck would I need for a Bliss Stick Mini Mystic?
39 John Weld // Sep 28, 2009 at 1:51 pm
Hey Glenn,
Bliss stick doesn’t list cockpit dimensions for that boat on their website- could you send me the width and length of the cockpit, including the rim?
-J
40 Catherine // Nov 10, 2009 at 2:34 am
Hello,
How come that the “Lucky Charm” isn’t on your website yet?
My spray skirt doesn’t have much life left in it and I’d like to replace it as soon as possible before it breaks completely. I’d like to get one with a rubber rand as this kind of rim has kept me dry so far. What size deck would you recommend to a short girl (5′3″) with a 27″ waist in a Project 42 (Cockpit Length 33.5″, Width 19″)?
Living in Vancouver, BC, I checked for dealers close by and was surprised to not see Glenmore Paddlesports on your list. I hope that’s a mistake as I would love to order through them.
Thanks!
41 jbecker // Nov 10, 2009 at 12:36 pm
Hi Catherine,
We are in the process of changing our website over for our 2010 products. Glenmore is a new shop with IR and you can certainly order a skirt through Tyson! As for what size you should get, we would recommend that you go with a XS or Small tunnel (XS will be a pretty snug fit, Small will be a bit easier to get on and off) and a Large cockpit rim size should fit perfectly! Thank you!
Jesse
42 Tyler Williamson // Nov 14, 2009 at 3:22 pm
ive got a jackson fun classic. which would have a better seal a lucky charm or special k. also what size. cockpit is 36×20. thanks
43 John Weld // Nov 16, 2009 at 11:41 am
Hi Tyler
I think the best/ driest fit for that boat would be an XL Lucky Charm. That particular skirt was designed to fit the wider jackson rims. The Special K’s we have in stock are our older patterns, and are better suited for more traditional, narrower cockpits- as a result, they would be harder to stretch on to that rim.
To answer your other post on the “rand” seal- a rand is a solid piece of extruded rubber that is glued on to the neoprene. The other popular style of skirt is a “bungee” skirt which has a shock cord sewn on to the neoprene. Basically, rand skirts tend to be harder to get on than a bungee skirt, but are much better at resisting implosion and can be very dry on certain types of rims.
-John
44 Kevin // Nov 23, 2009 at 8:20 pm
Hey,
I am in need of a new skirt and am trying to get only one skirt for two boats. I have an 06 all star and a medium pyrannha burn – I was thinking an xl lucky charm but just want to make sure before I get it.
what do you think?
Thanks,
Kevin
45 jbecker // Nov 24, 2009 at 12:30 pm
Hi Kevin,
An XL Lucky Charm skirt will work for both your ‘06 Allstar and your Burn. Thank you!
Jesse
46 Nate G // Dec 5, 2009 at 8:47 am
With the Lucky Charm out, would this or the SBD be the best choice for a boat with a sketchy rim design (Kingpin 6.3?)
47 John Weld // Dec 7, 2009 at 2:30 pm
Hey Nate,
The Kingpin is a really lousy rim- I would suggest the SBD.
-John
48 Jonathan // Jan 25, 2010 at 11:13 pm
Hello, I am wondering if the L lucky charm would fit my jefe and kingpin. I read the above comment about the lousy rim on the kingpin (6.3), but I would like the lucky charm skirt for creeking and I dont want to buy two skirts. Thanks.
49 John Weld // Jan 26, 2010 at 9:24 am
Hey Jonathan,
The Lucky Charm will fit great on the Jefe, and be a little tight on kingpin. To be honest, a tight-fitting skirt on a kingpin is a not a bad idea, as it will help with it’s inherent leakiness. To be sure, though, it would be great to try one on your kingpin to make sure it is acceptable for you. You can do this either at a retailer- or if you order from us, you can try it and send it back if it doesn’t work out for you. Let me know if I can help in any way to track one of these down for you,
-John
50 Allen // Feb 1, 2010 at 11:42 pm
I have an 2001 model Eskimo Salto, which has quite a long and narrow cockpit. Which deck would be best in terms of implosion?
51 jharmon // Feb 2, 2010 at 9:04 am
Hey Allen,
I would recommend a XL cockpit Lucky Charm skirt. This skirt does an excellent job of creating a dry seal and resisting implosion. If you let me know where your located I can attempt to find a dealer/distributor near you.
Jon Harmon
IR
52 hank // Feb 11, 2010 at 4:25 am
jon, what kind of results would you get if you use an XL skirt on a L cockpit? especially with two boats at opposite ends of the range from each other… say biscuit55 and old burnM.
53 JOHN PECK // Feb 11, 2010 at 9:37 am
WHAT SIZE LUCKY CHARM FOR A 2009 Jackson Hero.
54 jbecker // Feb 11, 2010 at 11:48 am
Hi Hank,
Should you decide to go that route, you will end up with implosions on the smaller of the two cockpit rims, it will fit quite loose, and you will be limited to class 2 whitewater. The biscuit is a true large, and is the standard in which we based our size large around. The Burn is a full on XL cockpit, even a L bungee skirt is really difficult to apply to that rim, and most times you have a little more flexibility with a wider range of rims with most bungee skirts. We would highly recommend using two separate skirts that will fit your two boats appropriately- whether you decide to buy an IR skirt or not.
Jesse
55 jbecker // Feb 11, 2010 at 11:50 am
Hi John,
A size Large Lucky Charm will work great on the Hero! Thanks- Jesse
56 Lee // Mar 7, 2010 at 3:34 pm
Hi All, quick question: Is it ok to use silicone gasket grease on my lucky charm rand? I find its a bit easier to stuff under the rim of my AllStar with a little bit a silicone. Any harm to the rand using silicone? Thanks! this thing is ultra dry BTW
57 John Weld // Mar 8, 2010 at 9:37 am
Hey Lee,
That should be no problem. Silicone is really inert- it doesn’t really hurt anything.
-John
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